Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by David11000 on February 7, 2012 at 1:41am

Before I spend much time on this, are you sure you're in the right county? There's a family with the same names where William was born in Derby, Derbyshire

David

Permalink Reply by David11000 on February 7, 2012 at 6:44am

Hi Joan

I've just seen that you are researching Holbrooks of Derbyshire, so assume that you posted on the Devon board in error.

So using the 1851 census as a base:

White Swan Inn, Catherine St., Bromley by Bow, Middlesex

William Holbrook, head marr 35 Accountant & publican b Derby, Derbyshire

William Holbrook son 15 Pot boy b Derby

Mary Ann Holbrook dau 14 Barmaid b Ipswich Suffolk

Elizabeth Holbrook dau 11 Scholar b Ipswich

Fanny Holbrook dau 10 b Derby

George Holbrook son 8 b London ....?

Thomas Coggeshall bro in law unmarried 42 man servant b Suffolk Flenham.

Working backwards

Marriage 12 Oct 1845 St Pancras, London, Middlesex

William Holbrook of full age widower Accountant of Hastings St, father William Holbrook dead and

Elizabeth Coggeshall of full age spinster of Hastings St, father Thomas Coggeshall, gent.

So Elizabeth doesn't appear to have been the mother of any of the children.

I can't see a marriage on the IGI.

There is a baptism on the IGI though, an extracted entry so reliable, of William Seaton Holbrook at All Saints Derby on 6 Dec 1836, son of William and Fanny. It might be the right couple given that William had a daughter Fanny. And if you're a believer in naming patterns, it ties in with William's father being named William on his marriage to Elizabeth.

Now it starts to get a bit complicated and more speculative!

There's a birth on www.freebmd.org.uk of George Thompson Holbrook in Holborn, London in the Dec quarter 1843. He married Jeanie Cecilia Curwen Kemp in Woolwich on 20 Sept 1864, father William Holbrook, gentleman. George baptised a son George William Seaton Holbrook on 21 Dec 1873 at Peckham. The recurrence of the middle name Seaton makes me think that George was the son of William in the 1851 census. And if William Seaton Holbrook was his brother, then their mother was Fanny. But I still can't find her! Might she have been Fanny Seaton?

Give me a few minutes. Just cooking a paella for lunch.

I'm struggling. Not with the paella, but finding them in 1841 and 1861.

Daughter Elizabeth married Joseph George Shepherd as in 1861 at St Clement Danes, London was

Joseph George Shepherd 32 Licensed victualler b Wandsworth Surrey

Elizabeth Shepherd wife 23 b Ipswich

Fanny Holbrook sister in law 20 b Derbyshire

Mary Ann Hill visitor marr 34 b Huntingdonshire

In Woolwich in 1861 George T Holbrook 18, apprentice surveyor, b Holborn, was living in the same household as his future wife, Jeanie Kemp.

But where were they in 1841, unless they're hiding behind a mangling of the name Holbrook?

I knew it, a glass of wine always does the trick, and lubricates the search engine as well!

1841 Upwood, Huntingdonshire

Frances Holbrook 30 Born in Hunts

William Holbrook 4 Not b in Hu'nts

Fanny Holbrook 8 mths Not b in Hunts

Julia Seaton 55 Independent

Fanny visiting mum perhaps. But where were husband, and daughters Mary ann and Elizabeth?

So it's all coming together! Time for another slurp. And the good news is that Hunts is one of the 3 counties that I understand, unlike Derbys or Devon.

Hunts Marriage Index has a marriage in 1802 at Stanground Hunts between Warren Seaton of Upton and Juliater Thompson (George THOMPSON Holbrook b 1843!!!). But there's no marriage pre 1837 in Hunts between Frances Seaton and William Holbrook.

Warren Seaton age 46 was buried at Upton on 9 Dec 1825. Julia age 70 on 1 Nov 1852. So where is she in 1851? There she is, enumerated as Seatoh

Upwood, Hunts

Julia Seatoh head widow 68 Independent b Stanground Hunts

What I haven't yet established is that Fanny/Frances was the daughter of Warren and Julia Seaton, and that Julia Seaton married William Holbrook.

I'll post this now in case I hit the wrong key and delete it all (it's been done before!), then I'll have a top up and continue researching

David

As you can tell, I research and type at the same time, but it shows how my brain works! It may come out a bit disjointed though!

And if you now say that it really was a Devon family you looking for you'll hear the screams all the way from France to Canada

Permalink Reply by David11000 on February 7, 2012 at 7:53am

I must have had a senior moment earlier, and overlooked the obvious.

George Thompson Holbrook's birth was registered in Holborn in the Mar quarter 1843, vol 2 page 148 (per www.freebmd.org.uk). Order his birth certificate online, cost £9-25, from http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ and you'll get confirmation of his parents' names and his mother's maiden name.

Whilst Hunts is not the easiest of English counties to research online, due to the LDS being refused permission to film many parish registers, the good news is that Upton has been filmed so is available to order from, and view at, your nearest LDS Family History Centre.

Permalink Reply by Joan Sereda on February 7, 2012 at 11:26am

You are right I  posted on the wrong county. It should have been Derby in Derbyshire. Working late at night is a mistake. Thank you for reply.

Joan

Permalink Reply by Joan Sereda on February 7, 2012 at 7:13pm

Hi David.

I have just had time to read through the info you sent me. Wow what a great lot of information . I'm jumping with joy . Its going to keep me busy for awhile.  Thank you thank you. 

Regards Joan

Permalink Reply by David11000 on February 8, 2012 at 1:09am

I've found out a bit more about Fanny b 1840 if you're interested. Did one of the Holbrooks emigrate to Canada?

Permalink Reply by Joan Sereda on February 8, 2012 at 11:14pm

HI David

Wow you have really been researching on my behalf.  Yes, I am interested in any thing you find. I hired a researcher who couldn't find a thing. So I am most appreciative. Its quite likely some did emigrate to Canada as there are quite a number here. But don't know any of them.

Regards Joan

Permalink Reply by David11000 on February 9, 2012 at 2:16am

Hi Joan

I was looking for Elizabeth (Holbrook) Shepherd and found her in 1881

The City of Quebec, Oxford St, Marylebone, London

Joseph Shepherd head marr 51 Licensed victualler employing 2 men & 5 women b Wandsworth

Elizabeth Shepherd wife 41 b Ipswich

Elizabeth Shepherd dau 16 scholar b Marylebone

Fanney Neal visitor married 39 Farmer's wife b Derbyshire

+6 servants

Knowing that Fanny Holbrook was living with the Shepherds in 1861 I wondered if Fanney Neal was her, as her age and birthplace were right.

There's a marriage on Freebmd in the March quarter 1862 in Wisbech registration district, Cambridgeshire, where two of the four parties on the page are Henry Neal and Fanny Holbrook, which looked promising.

In 1871 living at Grange, Welney, Cambridgeshire

Henry Neal head marr 48 Land owner b Southery Norfolk

Fanny Neal wife 30 Annuitant b Derby

Claude G Neal son 8 Scholar b Welney Cambs

Rodolph H Neal son 5 b Welney Cambs

Lennox H Neal son 3 b Welney Cambs

Sidney S Neal son 2 b Welneys Cambs

Laura F Neal dau 1 b Welney Cambs

Florence M Neal dau 4mths b Welney Cambs

Mary Neal mother widow 86 b Welney Norfolk

Mary Neal sister unmarr 52 Annuitant b Southery Norfolk

So I'm very confident that Fanny Neal in Cambs is Fanny Holbrook daughter of William and Fanny

David

So I need to find:

- death/burial of Fanny (Seaton) Holbrook before 1845

- what happened to William and Elizabeth after 1851

- marriage of William Holbrook and Fanny Seaton c1835

- baptism of Fanny Seaton in Hunts c1811

Permalink Reply by David11000 on February 9, 2012 at 2:35am

There's a burial of a Frances Holbrook age 41 of Hastings St at St Pancras, London on 20 Aug 1845. The age looks wrong, the remarriage of William on 28 Oct 1845 looks a bit soon, BUT William's address when he remarried was also Hastings St, St Pancras, so I suspect that this is the right Frances.

Her death registration was at Pancras in the Sept quarter 1845 vol 1 page 201. If you purchase the death cert at http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ you'll get the informant who hopefully will be William Holbrook.

Permalink Reply by David11000 on February 9, 2012 at 3:47am

The eldest son, William Seaton Holbrook, appears to have returned to Derbyshire. In 1851 he was a pot boy  in his father's pub, aged 15 in East London.  I can't find him in 1861.

In the March quarter 1863 there's a marriage in Holbeach, Lincs registration district of William Seaton Holbrook and Lydia Frances Blood.

In 1871 Litchurch, Derbyshire

William S Holbrook head marr 34 Auctioneer accountant. Assistant to the Sherriff of Derbyshire b Derby

Lydia F Holbrook wife 36 b Sutton St Edmunds Lincolnshire

Frances C Holbrook dau 7 b Derby

William J Holbrook son 5 b Derby

Louisa A Holbrook dau 4 b Derby

Percy S H Holbrook son 2 b Derby (the S stood for Seaton)

Minnie E Holbrook dau 6mths b Derby

And now it starts to get interesting!

1881 Gillingham, Kent, Convict Prison

William S Holbrook prisoner married 44 convict  b Derby

In 1881 Lydia and family were still in Litchurch, with Lydia shown as head.

Derby Summer Assizes 1880, William Seaton Holbrook was charged with Embezzlement and was sentenced to 7 years

William Seaton Holbrook age 65 died in the June quarter 1900 in South Stoneham registration district, Hampshire

Permalink Reply by Joan Sereda on February 9, 2012 at 7:07pm

Hi David

A big thank you once again. I shall print it and sort it out so I can enter all of it in my data base.

Forever grateful.

Joan