Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by David11000 on January 2, 2011 at 12:50pm

Who are the Millers that you threw in in your last sentence? Or was James a miller?

I see that you asked roughly the same question on the Brickwall board, and were given links to a thread on another board, which I suspect was also your thread. But on the other board you were given James' father's name from his second marriage entry - James Pearce, harbourmaster. There are too many James Pearces to know where to start, but being a harbourmaster might narrow down the search to coastal counties, if he was still alive at the time of the first useful census in 1841. But I can't find him in 1841 or 1851.

 Have you found the IoM family in any censuses subsequent to 1861? Like the researcher on the other board I can't read his place of birth in 1861 - and it's this that will be the key to finding his baptism.

David

Permalink Reply by MARIE BATTY on January 2, 2011 at 12:59pm

yes same family. i cant seem to get any information i have marriage cert of mary miller and william pearce. mary is the miller william is the pearce.

mary born whitehaven william born iom.

sorry if i am repeating myself. tried all the usual routes to find williams father james born england. birth cert for william just says father mariner b england.

hoping someone would be able to connect with millers or pearces. mary's maiden name richardson.

have been ill recently so havent been on as often as i would have hoped.

thank you for your patience

Permalink Reply by David11000 on January 4, 2011 at 10:25am

You're confusing me!

Are you saying that William b c1851, son of James, married Mary Miller, née Richardson, a widow?

Your Ancestry tree shows James died in 1878 on the Isle of Man. Have you found him in the 1871 census?

I think the 1861 may give IoM as his birthplace, although it's clearly England in 1851

David

Permalink Reply by MARIE BATTY on January 4, 2011 at 12:19pm

yes i find it confusing too.  i have the flu so my headisnt as clear as it normally is.

i am looking for.

SIBLINGS and RELATIVES of MARY ELLEN MILLER. BORN 1880 WHITEHAVEN.

her parents are mary miller born whitehaven and william pearce born iom 1851

williams parents are james pearce born england c 1814 - 1820 andhis mother  ellen cannell iom c1819

mary millers parents are thomas miller. born c 1811 lancashire pos bolton and mary miller born whitehaven. william pearce and mary miller it seems married in whitehaven c 1897 after the kids were born.  they lived in whitehaven and as far as i can tell they stayed there.

as usually the case i didnt start this until my granny and family were well gone. so no one to ask. hope this unconfuses you.  both william and james were mariners so maybe nobody did the census for them.

Permalink Reply by David11000 on January 4, 2011 at 2:15pm

I thought it was James Pearce's baptism you were looking for!

Now I'm totally confused. Don't you mean Mary Ellen PEARCE born 1880?

But if Mary Miller's maiden name was Richardson, how can her parents be Miller?

I'll start from scratch in the morning and try to work it out myself

Permalink Reply by MARIE BATTY on January 4, 2011 at 4:12pm

now you are confusing me. maybe we should just leave it.

                              

james pearce - ellen cannell                            jane richardson  thomas miller

     william pearce 1851 iom                               mary miller whitehaven

 

                                      mary ellen miller 1880 whitehaven

 

mary ellens parents didnt marry untill all the kids were born. some of them took the name pearce and some took the name miller

i am looking for the other kids siblings of mary ellen miller.

what is it that you dont understand.

how hard can it be

Permalink Reply by David11000 on January 4, 2011 at 9:04pm

What I don't understand is:

-on the opening message you say William Pearce  b1851 married Mary Richardson; then in your next message you say he married Mary Miller whose maiden name was Richardson.

and

- in your previous message you said that Mary Miller's parents were Thomas Miller and Mary Miller. Your last message says they were Thomas Miller and Jane Richardson.

 

It can be very hard when the facts keep changing

 

I'll see what I can make of it in the morning

Permalink Reply by David11000 on January 5, 2011 at 3:16am

1881 census

4 Mount Pleasant, Whitehaven

William Pearce head marr 30 Sailor b Douglas Isle of Man

Mary Pearce wife 27

William Pearce son 9

John Pearce son 6

Thomas Pearce son 3

Mary Ellen Pearce dau 8 mths

All bar William senior born Whitehaven

 

 

1891 census

2 Mount Pleasant, Whitehaven

William Pearse head marr 29 (sic) labourer b Isle of Man 

Mary Pearse wife 38

William Pearse son single 19 labourer

John Pearse son 15

Thomas Pearse son 13

Mary E Pearse dau 10

Joseph Pearse son 8

Jane A Pearse dau 6

Isabella Pearse dau 3

All bar William senior born Whitehaven

 

1901 census

 

35 Mount Pleasant, Whitehaven

William Pearce head marr 48 Dock labourer

Mary Ann Pearce wife 46

William Pearce son single 29 Dock labourer

Mary Ellen Pearce dau single 21 Senior worker pit???

Jane A Pearce dau single 18        Ditto

Joseph Pearce son 16

Isabella Pearce dau 14

Agnes Pearce dau 8

All  born Whitehaven

 

 

1911 census

35 Mount Pleasant, Whitehaven

William Pearce head marr 60 Mann A B

Mary Pearce wife 56 Married 33 years

William Pearce brother single 30 dock labourer

Agnes Pearce 19 sister single coal screener

 

 

All b Whitehaven

 

You have the 1898 marriage certificate which names the fathers as James Pearce and Thomas Miller. Notwithstanding that the age is a few years adrift, you appear to have assumed that Mary Miller was the 20 year old in 1871, born Whitehaven, living at 71 Mount Pleasant Whitehaven with parents Thomas Miller 60 b Bolton Lancs, Mary Miller wife 40, and siblings Jane 18, John 15, Isabella 12, Thomas 7, William 5. It might be the right family, it might not. I can’t find them in 1861.

According to Freebmd a Thomas Miller was on the same page as Mary Richardson in the marriage index in the June quarter 1847 in Whitehaven.

 

I'm by no means certain that Mary Miller who married in 1898 is necessarily the daughter of Thomas and Mary Miller. It's at variance with the 1911 census where she said she'd been married for 33 years; the 1871 census age is at variance with her age given in other censuses. I just don't know, in the absence of finding them in 1861, whether or not it's one assumption too many

 

David

Permalink Reply by MARIE BATTY on January 5, 2011 at 4:13am

thank you

i will leave it for now. im not sure if its the right family or not. maybe i will try it from a different direction.

the 1911 is very badly done as far as i can make out. there are a lot of inconsistencies to be found there.

thank you for your time

marie

Permalink Reply by David11000 on January 6, 2011 at 7:31am

The following may just be a load of hot air, but when you’re struggling, as I am,then sometimes you have to think the unlikely!

 

1841

83 Queen St Whitehaven

Thomas Miller 25 lab Not born in Cumberland

In same house or next door

Betsy Brockbank 45 Not born in Cumberland

 

The best that can be said is that it matches, just about, with the 1871 census entry

 

This might be them in 1851, but I’m not certain:

 

Queen St, Whitehaven

Thomas Millar head marr 40 Rail lab

Mary Millar wife 37

Eliza Millar Step dau 20 widow Milliner

Jane Millar step dau 18 Mill girl

Mary Millar step dau 14 Mill girl

Betsy Brockbank visitor 21

All b Whitehaven

 

There’s no sign that Thomas had children prior to 1841, and the fact that they are described as step children should mean that they were Mary’s. I can’t begin to sort them out though. But living at Duke St Whitehaven in 1841 was

Joseph Richardson 30 Not b in Cumberland

Ann Richardson 25 B in Cumberland

Mary Richardson 1 b in Cumberland

Jane Howe/Hawe 9 b in Cumberland.

 

I can’t see this family after 1841, but I’m clutching at straws!

 

If Mary’s age is right in 1851 (and the 3 of 37 is a bad figure) then she would probably have been too old to have had a son in 1866, and another in 1870 as shown on the 1881 census below, which makes me think it’s perhaps not the right family.In which case where were they in 1851 and 1861? I can accept they were missed off one census, but two is pushing it.

 

If you don’t already have it I’d be tempted to get the 1847 marriage cert to see if Mary was described as a widow, and to see who her father was.

 

Thomas Miller death 1877 age 68 in Whitehaven registration district

 

1881.Whitehaven

Mary Miller widow 50; Thomas son 18; William son 15; Isaac son 11

 

This might get expensive buying birth and marriage certs in an attempt to sort them out

 

David