Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Just M on December 16, 2011 at 9:18pm

Doing a time line with the info you have given us over the years.

Myself I think something is wrong- but I have been known to have been wrong from time to time. Hopefully someone new on the scene can help sort this or find some obits to help you sort this

1876- Hannah Maria Muir born 29 June 1876 to William Muir and Elizabeth Dyer (discussion on here parents is at that link)

Birth Record # 021393 Click to view
Name: Hannah Maria Muir
Date of Birth: 29 Jun 1876
Gender: Female
Birth County: Muskoka District
Father's name: William Muir
Mother's name: Elisabeth Dyer
Archives of Ontario Microfilm:

1881 Census- She is with her parents in the Muskoka district of Ontario - aged 4 years
Click to view
Name: Mariah Muir
Gender: Female
Age: 4
Birth Year: 1877
Birthplace: Ontario
Religion: Methodist Church of Canada
Nationality: Scotch (Scotish)
Province: Ontario
District Number: 131
District: Muskoka
Sub-District Number: H

Household Members:
Name Age
William Muir 55
Elizabeth Muir 44
William John Muir 20
Laurence Josiah Muir 16
Fredrick George Muir 14
Thomas Henry Muir 12
Mary Jane Muir 19
Josephine Muir 7
Mariah Muir 4
Elizabeth Lillien Muir 8/12

1889 - Sister Mary Jane marries Edward James Hunter 13 September 1889 View Marriage Record # 010957

1891 -Hannah is still with parents ages 14 yrs Click to View
Name: Hannah M Mure (Muir)
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Single
Age: 14
Birth Year: abt 1877
Birthplace: Ontario
Relation to Head of House: Daughter
Religion: Methodist
French Canadian: No
Father's Birth Place: Scotland
Mother's Birth Place: England
Province: Ontario
District Number: 100
District: Ontario North
Subdistrict: Ryde

Household Members: Name Age
William Mure 66
Elizabeth Mure 53
Joseph Mure 26
Fredrick Mure 23
Thomas H Mure 22
Josephine Mure 18
Hannah M Mure 14
Elizabeth L Mure 10

1895- According to the 1901 census her son Roy Armstrong was born on 29 March 1895 but I did not find a birth record for him. Can anyone find his birth record?

1896- Hannah Mariah Muir married John Thomas Armstrong son of William Armstrong and Margaret Perry on 28 March 1896 at the age of 18 years stating that her father is William Muir and Elizabeth Muir and that she was born in Ontario. This would make her born 1878. Click To View certificate # 011654

Name: Hannah Mariah Muir
Birth Place: Ontario
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Father Name: William Muir
Mother Name: Elizabeth Muir
Spouse Name: Thomas Armstrong
Spouse's Age: 21
Spouse Birth Place: Ontario
Spouse Father Name: William Armstrong
Spouse Mother Name: Margret Armstrong
Marriage Date: 28 Mar 1896
Marriage County or District: Simcoe

1900 -Her husband John Thomas in usa 15 May 1900 according to his Declaration of Intention. Follow him in the discussion HERE

1901- she is living with her brother George as head of house. Her father William is listed as being 72 and her mother Elizabeth is 60. Her son Roy Armstrong is also in the house. She states she was born 29 June 1876. View Census Here
Name: Hannah Moor
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Single
Age: 24
Birth Day & Month: 29 June
Birth Year: 1876
Birthplace: Ontario
Relation to Head of House: Sister
Racial or Tribal Origin: Irish
Nationality: Canadia (Canadian)
Religion: Methodist
Province: Ontario
District: Simcoe (North/Nord)
District Number: 114
Sub-District: Vespra
Sub-District Number: H-5

Name: Roy Armstrong
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Age: 5
Birth Day & Month: 29 Mar
Birth Year: 1895
Birthplace: Ontario
Racial or Tribal Origin: Irish

1902 or 1903 -Her husband John Thomas Armstrong marries again to a Mary Lacourt and by 1903 has a family. (presumed as I have not found a marriage record yet)  Was he legally free to marry or was he a bigamist?

1902 - Her brother George Frederick Muir married Mary Jane Martin on 26 Nov 1902. View marriage recordI did not find the page that contains witnesses - can somone else please

1903 - Ada Hannah Armstrong married Joseph Patrick Powell on 27 July 1903 at the age of 22 stating that her father was William Armstrong and her mother was Elizabeth Dyer and that she was born in Barrie Ontario. This would make her born 1881. If this is herwhy the name change from Hannah Mariah to Ada Hannah? Why has she listed her father as William Armstrong instead of William Muir? You know that her 1st husband is alive so when were they divorced?

View marriage record # 1719 Page 1 Page 2

Name: Ada Hannah Armstrong
Birth Place: Canada
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Father Name: William Armstrong
Mother Name: Elizabeth Dyer
Spouse Name: Joseph Patrick Powell
Spouse's Age: 23
Spouse Birth Place: England
Spouse Father Name: Thomas P Powell
Spouse Mother Name: Anne Larkin
Marriage Date: 27 Jul 1903
Marriage County or District: York

1904 - Her sister Esther marries Alexander Moffat on 5 April 1904 View Marriage Record. I did not find the page with witnesses - can someone else direct me to it please

1904 - Her father William Muir passes away in April. The obit says he is survived by his widow and five children. His obit is HERE.

1906 -Her sister Lillian marries Robert Prince in Barrie on 22 August 1906 according to an article in the Barrie Examiner. I did not find a marraige record.

1906 - Her brother Thomas Henry marries Anna May Bain on 26 December 1906. Who is Minnie Muir who witnessed the marriage? View Marriage Record # 017906

1907- Hannah's mother, Elizabeth Muir, passes away 8 August 1907 in Barrie, Simcoe County. She was a widow and lived at 4 Florence St. Surviving children are listed as: Fred, Mrs Moffat (this would be Esther) both who were living in town, Harry of Minising, Mrs Hunter (this would be Mary Jane), Mrs Powell (this is Hannah) Mrs Prince ( this is Lillian) all of Toronto; R. Devereaux of town (this must be Josephine),  John out west and Joseph who at an unknown location. Her obit is HERE. She is buried in Union Cemetery - has anyone contacted the cemetery yet?

1908- Ida Muir married Howard C. Lobdell on 14 January 1908 at the age of 23 stating that her father was Wm Muir and her mother Elizabeth Dyer. And that she was born in Ottawa This would make her born in 1885, nine years after her birth. View marriage certificate # 005601

Name: Ida Muir
Birth Place: Ottawa, Ontario
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Father Name: Wm Muir
Mother Name: Elizabeth Dyer
Spouse Name: Howard C Lobdell
Spouse's Age: 23
Spouse Birth Place: Connecticut
Spouse Father Name: Nathan Lobdell
Spouse Mother Name: Mary Dean
Marriage Date: 14 Jan 1908
Marriage County or District: Carleton

1911- Hannah, Ida, Ada or whatever name she may have been using is not found in census by me and neither is her son Roy

1911- Brother George married Emma nee Weavers Barnes 23 November 1911 in Toronto. Witnesses Robert and Lillian Peince View Marriage Record # 023557

1912 -Sister Esther Moffat dies 31 December 1912 in Toronto. View Death record # 001106

Ontario, Canada, Deaths, 1869-1938 and Deaths Overseas, 1939-1947 Name: Esther Moffatt Death Date: 31 Dec 1912 Death County or District: York Age: 55 Gender: Female Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857 Birth Location: Canada. I have not found her obit. Can anyone else

We need this obit

1914 -Her son Roy enlists 7 September 1914 and stated his next of kin is his uncle G F Muir. Stating he was born in Minesing, Ontario on 29 Mar 1894. View Front , View Back. Do you have the entire army records or just front and back pages found online

1916 -  Brother George married on 24 May 1916 to Elizabeth Hart in Hamilton View Marriage Record # 024511

1919- Her son Roy returns after being a POW for 4 years. His home is listed as 482 Montrose Ave. This from March 4, 1919 Toronto Star. 482 was the home of his aunt Lillian Prince and husband Robert

1919- Her son Roy marries 14 May 1919 to Lillian Harvey View Marriage record # 002557

Name: Roy Armstrong
Birth Place: Ontario
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1896
Father Name: John Armstrong
Mother Name: Ida Muir
Spouse Name: Lillian Harvey
Spouse's Age: 22
Spouse Birth Place: England
Spouse Father Name: William Harvey
Spouse Mother Name: Florence Taylor
Marriage Date: 14 May 1919
Marriage County or District: York

1922 - 1923 -Son Roy and wife Lillan arrives in the USA

1923 -Grandson Alan Leroy born November 1923 in Miami, Florida (son of Roy and Lillian)

1924- Hannah Armstrong married William Henry Armstrong 3 September 1924 in Mimico, Ontario at the age of 44 stating that her father was Wm Muir and her mother Elizabeth Dyer. And that she was born in Toronto. This would make her born in 1880.
View marriage record # 023174

Name: Hannah Armstrong
Birth Place: Toronto, Ontario
Age: 44
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Father Name: William Muir
Mother Name: Elizabeth Dyer
Spouse Name: William Henry Armstrong
Spouse's Age: 43
Spouse Birth Place: Cty of Sligo Ireland
Spouse Father Name: Richard Armstrong
Spouse Mother Name: Margaret Mccleary
Marriage Date: 3 Sep 1924
Marriage County or District: York
Registration district: York

1926 -According to a photograph someone in the family has she visited / was in Atlantic City, NJ. PLEASE family mambers could you share this photo with us?

1926 - William and Fern (nee Tudor) Mather had a son James William Armstrong born May 29, 1926 in Swansea, Ontario, Canada passed away 25 Dec 1985 Barrie, Ontario. This according to a tree on ancestry done by a grandaughter ( cjmuriell ) of William Henry Armstrong. Bear in mind this tree is not documented online

1927- William Henry Armstrong remarried on 15 January 1927 to Fern (nee Tudor) Mather in Hamilton.  He is listed as widower so some time between 1926 and 1927 she may have died. Cant find any records about her death. View Marriage Record # 024609

1929 -Grandson Warren born October 1929 in Miami, Florida (son of Roy and Lillian)

1934 -in March William Henry Armstrong is said to have passed away in Toronto (I have not found his death record)

1944 -on 15 January 1944 in Painswick Thomas Henry Muir passed away. His obit states he is survived by 4 sons and 5 daughters plus his brother George and sister Lillian in Toronto. This helps greatly in narrowing down the time frame for the deaths of the rest of the siblings as we can now presume the rest all passed away between 1907 and 1944 View Obit Here from the Barrie Examiner, 27 Jan 1944, p. 10.

1957 - Brother George Muir dies in Toronto. No mention of siblings in his obit HERE taken from Toronto Star 1 November 1957. Buried Prospect Cemetery, Toronto. Funeral home was Brown Brothers. His children are listed as William, Fred, Lorraine & Nicholas.

1967- 31 December 1967 her son Roy passes away in Zephyer Hills, Pasco County, Florida

1970 -Howard Lobdell passes away (if this is the same one) 25 October 1970 in Siren, WI

Social Security Death Index
Name: Howard Lobdell
SSN: 387-12-8299
Last Residence: 54872 Siren, Burnett, Wisconsin, United States of America
Born: 6 Jan 1885
Died: Oct 1970
State (Year) SSN issued: Wisconsin

To me something seems so wrong in all this.

Hopefully someone can come up with her death record or an obit.

Permalink Reply by Eliz on December 20, 2011 at 4:35pm

What did we decide on this one, way back when?

Was she the right woman or a different one?

011654-96 (Simcoe Co.) Thomas ARMSTRONG, 21, laborer, Ontario, North Bay, s/o William and Margaret, married Hanna Mariah MUIR, 18, Ontario, Vespra, d/o William and Elizabeth, witn: G.F. MUIR and Elizabeth MUIR, both of Vespra, 28 Mar 1896 at Vespra
Simcoe 96

homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~maryc/simcoe96.htm

Thomas ARMSTRONG, 21, laborer, Ontario, North Bay, s/o William and Margaret, married Hanna Mariah MUIR, 18, Ontario, Vespra, d/o William and .... 16, 1896 at Midland, 11770-96 Henry BOWDEN, 26, blacksmith, Canada, Copper Cliff, s/o ...

Permalink Reply by Janet on January 19, 2012 at 8:18pm

This is the right Hannah Muir.  You will notice earlier, I don't think it is in this thread, there is a Hannah Elizabeth Muir, same parents.  She died about 3 months ? before Hannah Maria Muir was born.  I have found death notices in the Barrie paper for Muirs, but have never found when Hannah Maria died.  She was also called Ida; I think it was a family nick name.  My father(her grandson) referred to her as Ida.  The last anyone in the family knew, she was in Atlantic City, NJ.  in 1926.  The question is, was she living there, or just visiting?  There is a photo of her taken there at the time.  I can not find any thing on her in NJ.  But what last name did she go by?  

Permalink Reply by Just M on January 21, 2012 at 4:57pm

 does a Hannah Elizabeth Muir die 3 months before her sister Hannah Maria Muir was born. This girl is 18 her father is listed as William but no mothers name on the record. I must look at census

Permalink Reply by Janet on January 21, 2012 at 7:36pm

Hannah Elizabeth Muir d. 9 Feb 1876  in Muskoka, Farmer Ryde

cause of death, scarlett fever

she was born 1858 Innisfield,  (parents are listed as living in Innisfield.... they were married there Jan. 15, 1855)

Hannah Mariah Muir was born 3 months after her sister's death... 29 June 1876 in Muskoka, Farmer Ryde

Permalink Reply by Just M on January 21, 2012 at 1:02pm

Who is Margaret Armstrong who witnessed for Hannah

Permalink Reply by firefox on January 21, 2012 at 3:07pm

very good ??? not no

Permalink Reply by Janet on January 21, 2012 at 3:50pm

if you check the attachment you posted, Margaret is William Armstrong's mother, his father is Richard.  Gets confusing when a "widow" with the last name of Armstrong re-marries to another Armstrong who seem to have similar first names in their line.

Permalink Reply by Just M on January 21, 2012 at 4:15pm

ok I missed that I never thought of his (William's) mother witnessing his marriage.

I have not found his mother in Canada yet but such common names I may have missed it

Permalink Reply by Janet on January 21, 2012 at 4:05pm

I'm thinking the Muir family members either didn't take things too seriously when it came to dates, or just didn't know when they were born.  Hannah's brother George Frederick gives in one census or his marriage registration that he was born "on the ocean" yet his parents were already living in Simcoe County with 2 other children at the time of his birth.  Hannah is all over the place on the year of her birth and where she was born.  The consistent piece is the parents are always the same in each of these marriage registrations.  Could there be more that one couple married who were Elizabeth Dyer and William Muir?  I haven't found any others yet.... I wonder if there are birth records that midwives kept?  There was a midwife in Minesing who's last name was Muir (can't remember her first name.)  Is there a place one can look to find records like this?  I'm thinking of when Hannah gave birth to Roy?

Permalink Reply by Just M on January 21, 2012 at 4:08pm

Parents not the same on all 4 marriages. One has her father as William Armstrong.

Permalink Reply by Janet on January 21, 2012 at 6:25pm

Is human error possible?  With similar names, accidentally wrote Armstrong instead of Muir?  Seems to happen a lot on these hand written documents.

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