Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Vivian Carroll Glacken on September 9, 2011 at 8:39pm

Donna I was talking to some older cousins and they said that the place that held the birth records from when my grandmother Vivian Lytle was born in Canada burned so for some odd reason they ask the people to pick a place they wanted their birth cert. to say they were born and for some reason my grandmother picked Colorado, maybe so it looked like she was born in the US.

Did you hear anything back from Patt (Lytle) Axson. I do know her half brother Wayne Johnston still lives in Canada.

Than You so much for your help and time.

Vivian

Permalink Reply by Donna on September 10, 2011 at 8:39am

Hello Vivian:  Thats interesting because the birth/marriage/death records in Ontario at least at kept at the Office of the Registrar General I personally have never heard of a fire and records burning there maybe one of the other Registrar Offices had a fire but I havn't heard of it.  If there was a fire your grandmother may have filed for someone like a delayed birth register but that doesn't explain her saying she was born in Colorado. Iwouldn'tthink that the Ontario Registrar would take a birth reg for Colorado.  Let me review the notes you have here on Looking for Kin so I can see dates and other info you provide to see if I might be able to find something for you I'm planning on going to the archives next week some time so I might be able to find something for you. 

Have you been in contact with the half-brother Wayne Johnston? He might know a little info that can help.   

Permalink Reply by Donna on September 10, 2011 at 8:47am

Hi Vivian:

I was just reading over the notes and I recall sending you the gravestone picture of Carl your grandmother's brother, did you ever get in touch with his daughter Patt?  I'll check the archives when I go next week I have recorded her date of birth some how I recall checking the birth index already but it might have been for someone else for that same birth year even if I did check them I can't recall if I found anything ha-ha I'm sure I have notes that I kept that can confirm it.  I'll check the year before and year after since they often had their year of birth incorrect. 

Permalink Reply by scotincanada on March 12, 2012 at 10:09pm

Hi Donna,

Very generous of you to offer this help ... looks like you've had plenty of takers! My task is probably impossible, but I figure I have nothing to lose by asking. My great grandmother is missing.

Eliza (aka Elizabeth, Liza) MCGREGOR was born Jan. 14, 1887 in Argyll, Scotland to Dugald MCGREGOR and Margaret MCMILLAN. In 1908, she had a daughter, while unmarried. The daughter was raised by Dugald and Margaret while Eliza went to Greenock, Scotland for work. In 1912, Eliza married Angus MCARTHUR in Greenock. Not long afterwards, the couple immigrated to Ontario, Canada and supposedly settled in the Ottawa area. They had a daughter, Margaret MCARTHUR. After a year or so, they separated and Angus returned alone to Scotland. He later sought a divorce and remarried. Eliza stayed in Ontario and got work as a housekeeper to support Margaret and herself. I am told that Margaret died at age 25 years giving birth to a son that Eliza then raised. I don't know what year (guessing around 1940ish) and I don't know child's name, nor if Margaret was married. It seems that Eliza must have remarried at some point as I can find no trace of her as MCGREGOR, MCARTHUR or even LAROSE (the name of a one time common law spouse.) I understand she lived to be about 90 years of age (late 1970s) and may have died in a nursing home.

I wish I knew more. Her 'scandalous' baby out of wedlock and divorce did not sit well with her family and she was more or less deliberately forgotten over the years. Would love to find any trace of her life. Would really like to find and visit her grave. Would really be over the moon if I could learn what happened to her grandson. Thank you!

Mary

Permalink Reply by Donna on March 13, 2012 at 3:57am

WOW that’s a story and looks like a challenge. I think the way to start is with Margaret their daughter since we don’t know if Eliza married again but than again Margaret McArthur could have married also.  I would guess at a year of birth for Margaret McArthur from 1912 to 1915 so we have somewhere to start she could have been born after 1915 but we need to have somewhere to start.  Finding a birth certificate at the archives won’t be possible if she was born after 1915 since they don’t have certificates archived after that date the 1915 certificates won’t be available until later in 2012.  Death certificates at the archives only go up the 1939 with the 1940 certificate being available later in 2012 so unless she died before 1940 we won’t find anything there for her.  I plan on going to the archives at the end of March so I can check the birth registers for McArthur from 1912 until 1914 for now to see if there is a Margaret McArthur I'll even take a look at the death register. 

On the OCFA I found a Margaret Elizabeth McArthur the cemetery is Beechwood, which is located in Ottawa.  It says Beechwood Burial Register (1931-1955) (Index Only) reference number is OT-95-01 I don’t know if that is a Beechwood reference number or an OCFA number.  I think it might be worth checking this one out I’m getting the feeling it might not be your Margaret but its worth taking a look anyway it never hurts to check it out.  Does your library have Cemetery transcripts, if so if you check Beechwood you might get a date of death? If we can get a date of death for this Margaret we can check the Ottawa papers for an obit to see if her mother was mentioned.  You might also want to call or write Beechwood and see if they can provide you with some information on this Margaret.  I would check the transcripts here in Toronto at the reference library for you but it won’t be until the end of the month since I’m working some extra hours so it’s a little busy for the next couple of weeks.

Another thing to note is there is a Albert Larose buried at Beechwood and he is shown with the same reference number as the above Margaret Elizabeth McArthur so maybe the reference number is a OCFA number.  But is interesting that there is a McArthur and Larose the two names you mentioned buried with the same reference number at the same Cemetery, worth a quick peek to see if they might be connected to you Eliz. 

Did you try finding the divorce records they might provide some info on their child and might even provide a date of birth for her.  If they married in Scotland than maybe that's where Angus filed for Divorce.  I've left a message on a Scottish message board I go to asking where someone could find Divorce records in Scotland.  I'll let you know if I get a reply, they are usually very helpful. 

Maybe someone on Looking for Kin might have the cemetery transcript and they can check for you. 

We have somewhere to start, I'll be in touch.

Donna

Permalink Reply by scotincanada on March 16, 2012 at 4:49pm

Hi Donna,

Yes it's a puzzle. Has stumped me for years. You see this was (and still is) an unsavoury topic of discussion in my family, but I'm determined to learn more about her life and find her grave and put flowers there. The first baby she had, the one she left in Scotland with her parents, was my grandmother. I never knew her either. I came to Canada, as a child, with my family 40+ years ago and settled in the same province as Eliza, living here perhaps 10 years before she died and I never met her. I knew some of her siblings who had immigrated here and they were wonderful people, but nobody ever talked about Eliza. Now all these people are gone and with them any clues about Eliza's fate.

You're right - it doesn't make it easy when I don't know any exact birth/death years for Margaret MCARTHUR or any married names (if any) for her or Eliza. The time frames I'm working with are too 'recent' in Ontario terms, as you've noticed too.

I have the feeling that the Margaret Elizabeth MCARTHUR in Beechwood has been ruled out by someone already. You know, I once wrote a letter to every MCARTHUR in the Ottawa phone book, but got no results from that either.

I'm not sure what kind of divorce records exist. I was thinking that since the divorce started by her ex Angus MCARTHUR who was in Scotland, the records would be there. All I have seen thus far, is a stamp denoting divorced in the margin of the original Scottish marriage registration. Not sure where to obtain more info. What I do know is that MCARTHUR's lawyers were after Eliza's family to give up her address in Canada so they could contact her about the proceedings and they refused. The stamp looks like it says 1929, but it could be 1939. So I wonder if the eventual divorce papers even have an address on them for her?

Something else just occurred to me. What if my Scottish family, not knowing this country very well, mistook Oshawa for Ottawa? I should have a look, but I hate to think I've wasted 10 years looking in the wrong city!

Mary

Permalink Reply by Donna on March 16, 2012 at 9:00pm

What I'll is search the Toronto Star pages of the past.  It won't hurt you just never know she might have moved to Toronto.  I'll let you know if I find anything.   

Permalink Reply by Donna on March 27, 2012 at 6:08am

Hello Mary:

As promise I posted on the Scottish message board I go to (takingscots), it took some time because it was down for maintenance.  They came through I posted that I was trying to help you with your search and posted a little info on Angus and Eliz and was sent a link to http://www.nas.gov.uk/onlineCatalogue. This link was posted by Annette who post on that message board and has always been a big help with my searches. If you search that page for Angus McArthur there is a note for a Divorce between a Angus McArthur v Elizabeth McGregor or McArthur.  The date is 1950 so it would appear that Angus applied for the Divorce in Scotland.  Now of course it could be another Angus McArthur and Elizabeth McGregor but I would guess he is yours. I copied and pasted the info below.  Now to apply for a copy of the records which just might provide you with a address for Eliz unless he just applied for it saying she left him, it might also provide info on his daughters date of death. 

I'm wondering Mary if maybe Eliz called Angus to tell him his daughter died he came for her funeral and than had Eliz address so therefore applied for a Divorce that might be it was in the 1950's now of course that's just me thinking out loud.  What do you think? I've e-mail them to see how you can get a copy, that way I'll know for myself in the future as well how to get copies of items from there.  I'll let you know what the reply is. 

Donna

Reference	Title	Date
CS258	Court of Session: Unextracted Processes, 4th arrangement	1935-1994

Country code	GB
Repository code	234
Repository	National Archives of Scotland
Reference	CS258/23400
Title	Angus McArthur v Elizabeth McGregor or McArthur: Divorce
Dates	1950
Access status	Open
Location	Off site
Description	304
Level	Item

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• …
• 3
• 4
• 5
• Next ›
• Page