Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Judie on February 27, 2012 at 11:25pm

I found a Joseph Cooper in a family tree on Ancestory.com. It states:

Birth December 19, 1865, Hanley, Staffordshire, England

Marriage to Elizabeth Paulina Hoile - Nov 2, 1891

Death Feb 3, 1940 Walmer, Kent, England

Child from marriage: Joseph Henry Robert Cooper

Birth 16 DEC 1892 in Lower Walmer, Kent, England

Death 15 DEC 1958 in Royal Berks hospital, Reading

I can look further if this is the right direction

cheers, Judie

Permalink Reply by Redwoodmiss on February 28, 2012 at 6:55pm

Hi Judie thanks for your reply.

Yes, that's the correct Joseph Cooper, my g. grandfather. I have him from his enlistment in 1884 onwards. it's the 'before enlistment' that's proving a problem

Permalink Reply by Judie on February 29, 2012 at 10:57pm

Sometimes, if a man had been in legal trouble (i.e. reform school) they would adhocly change their names when the enlisted.  I know this to be true as I transcribe WW1 war documents for the Canadian National Archives and run across it all the time.  I would suspect that Joseph Cooper spent at least 4 yrs in reform school and upon coming out took his stepmothers name to have a fresh start.

just speculation though....

Judie

Permalink Reply by Redwoodmiss on March 1, 2012 at 1:00pm

he would have been what I guess we would nowadays call a juvenile offender. He is not in any criminal records for Staffs or Gloucs. Did they have different courts for younger people?

Permalink Reply by bcrick on February 28, 2012 at 12:35pm

I also have looked at the tree on Ancestry but also viewed the bmd index as you have a date of birth as December 1865. It would not be unusual for a Birth in December to show up in the next quarter. I find a birth for Joseph Cooper Jan-Mar 1866 District Stoke upon Trent vol 6b page 191. Note: Hanley is in this district. So from what you state this would seem to be the most appropriate birth for him. By purchasing his birth record you will get the fathers name and occupation as well as the maiden name of the mother along with her forename. I would think that you would have to start here to prove this is your Joseph Cooper or not.

Looking at the census records there is a Jospeh Cooper born Hanley abt 1866 which fits his birth in December 1865 and he resides with his parents on the 1871 and 1881 census. On both censuses his parents are listed as Thomas Cooper a butcher and his wife Lucy. So from what you know you would rule this one out then. I see another Joseph Cooper on the 1871 census listed as a grandson in the household of James Cooper and this may well be him. A daughter of James resides in the household by the name of Ceclia. Until you get his birth record sorted it will be difficult to be sure who is who. I hope I have not muddied the waters for you but the above bmd index is the only one that fits for the information you have supplied.

bcrick 

Permalink Reply by Redwoodmiss on February 28, 2012 at 7:04pm

Hello bcrick, thank you also for replying and your suggestions.

 I have already checked and ruled out those Joseph Coopers so unfortunately so joy there.

There is a family rumour that a name change occurred and Charleston was given as the alternative. I have several records that would fit for the  above mentioned Charleston family. It seems odd that Joseph Charlston disappears after the 1881 census and we take up Joseph Cooper in 1884.

It's just being abe to prove it beyond doubt that's proving difficult and I've run out of ideas.

Permalink Reply by David11000 on March 1, 2012 at 1:09am

All but impossible to "prove it beyond doubt" unless there's a deed poll in the London Gazette. Probably the best you can say is that on the balance of probabilities Joseph Charlston is the same person as Joseph Cooper

Permalink Reply by Redwoodmiss on March 1, 2012 at 1:03pm

Hi David thanks for your reply, It's beginning to seem as that's the best I'll ever be able to do.